Comments on: Clash of Globalizations: Western and Islamic Utopianists http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/ Exploring Islam in America through the social sciences Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:41:33 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Hood http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-90296 Hood Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:55:27 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-90296 Salam Alaikum, Email me bro Salam Alaikum,

Email me bro

]]> By: Marc http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-90089 Marc Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:08:56 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-90089 <p style="font-size: 1.5em">?? ???</p> You are so right. It has been something that I have heard Dr. Jackson reiterate time and time again. That Muslims are the biggest offenders of "false universal crimes", so to speak. Even just recently, after sitting and hearing a number of imams discussing issues pertaining to Muslims, they often used such language as "Islam this" and "Islam that", brandishing their opinions as legal weapons. By the way, I hung out with Khalifa last weekend here in Philly. It was really good to see him. We spoke of you for a bit. I hope when you return, we're in close proximity. Salaams, ?? ???

You are so right. It has been something that I have heard Dr. Jackson reiterate time and time again. That Muslims are the biggest offenders of “false universal crimes”, so to speak. Even just recently, after sitting and hearing a number of imams discussing issues pertaining to Muslims, they often used such language as “Islam this” and “Islam that”, brandishing their opinions as legal weapons.

By the way, I hung out with Khalifa last weekend here in Philly. It was really good to see him. We spoke of you for a bit. I hope when you return, we’re in close proximity.
Salaams,

]]> By: Hood http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-89971 Hood Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:08:41 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-89971 salam alaikum Marc, this was a well written post which brought to mind this quote I recently came across: <strong>“[O]ne of the most significant features of contemporary Muslim thought is the attachment to and even veneration of ‘Islam’ in controversial debate. Thus we find that [authors] accurately represent Muslim thought when they say ‘Islam requires’ or ‘Islam accepts’ or some other locution.” <strong> Reinhart, “The Past in the future of Islamic Ethics,” </strong></strong>p.216. So one of the main instigators of "false universals" has been the insistence of Muslims to create paradigms of "Islam says" vs. "The West says.." without any appeal to text, authority, or intellect.<strong><strong> </strong></strong> salam alaikum Marc,
this was a well written post which brought to mind this quote I recently came across:
“[O]ne of the most significant features of contemporary Muslim thought is the attachment to and even veneration of ‘Islam’ in controversial debate. Thus we find that [authors] accurately represent Muslim thought when they say ‘Islam requires’ or ‘Islam accepts’ or some other locution.”
Reinhart, “The Past in the future of Islamic Ethics,” p.216.

So one of the main instigators of “false universals” has been the insistence of Muslims to create paradigms of “Islam says” vs. “The West says..” without any appeal to text, authority, or intellect.

]]> By: muslimmatters.org » The Ruins of Traditional Islam http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-89865 muslimmatters.org » The Ruins of Traditional Islam Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:57:31 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-89865 [...] For those unfamiliar with this construct, “traditional Islam” is posited as the authentic alternative to the various modern reform movements–those that reject classical sources of knowledge altogether, those that simplify and codify core Islamic texts into a false universal, those well funded by Saudi oil money, and those who mix Islam with modern political ideologies. In short, traditional Islam is the organic cotton thobe, not the polyester one made in China. It is a masjid made of stone, not concrete. It is the Islam of beautiful piety, rather than ugly, intolerant austerity. [...] [...] For those unfamiliar with this construct, “traditional Islam” is posited as the authentic alternative to the various modern reform movements–those that reject classical sources of knowledge altogether, those that simplify and codify core Islamic texts into a false universal, those well funded by Saudi oil money, and those who mix Islam with modern political ideologies. In short, traditional Islam is the organic cotton thobe, not the polyester one made in China. It is a masjid made of stone, not concrete. It is the Islam of beautiful piety, rather than ugly, intolerant austerity. [...]

]]> By: Khidhir Naeem http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-88850 Khidhir Naeem Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:28:39 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-88850 Can we truly address this topic when we are so steeped in the Jaws of the Xenophobic Arab Empire, who's de-facto mission is not do their part as slaves to ALLAH, but to in-list their own slave to enact their interpretation of the who, what, when, and why Islam should be. Their fear is our greatest asset. the lack of literacy will be the tool Brother Manley and the new talented tenth will use to bring us out of the "Arab ownership ages" to the era where the word Muslim will be a title of reverence and character instead of a middle eastern native snapshot Can we truly address this topic when we are so steeped in the Jaws of the Xenophobic Arab Empire, who’s de-facto mission is not do their part as slaves to ALLAH, but to in-list their own slave to enact their interpretation of the who, what, when, and why Islam should be. Their fear is our greatest asset. the lack of literacy will be the tool Brother Manley and the new talented tenth will use to bring us out of the “Arab ownership ages” to the era where the word Muslim will be a title of reverence and character instead of a middle eastern native snapshot

]]> By: Jerry Brown http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-88844 Jerry Brown Sat, 04 Aug 2007 15:41:55 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-88844 Forgive me, please, for blunt ignorance. Does the Qu'ran express explicitly aversions to homosexuality, members of particular ethnic groups and/or non-Islamic belief practitioners? If it does, then the issue is not globalization, false universal nor modernization. The issue, instead, would be indifference. If it does not, the issue extends beyond globalization. It ventures transference neurosis. Incidentally the American liberties propaganda is the grand agitator. Thus this does not exclude hidden sexism, dormant will to ethnic cleansing, homophobia unawakened or other negative isms yet surfaced due to liberal thinking -liberal thinking as is in public talk. Mind you, I am appreciative fully of cultural traditions and cultural way of life that have substained a people and their history albeit whatever fine lines liberal thinkers would raise. This transference neurosis produces these isms, which lain quiescent among local and regional power brokers, thus flowed decades. These victims of the isms, now liberal thinkers with bullhorns, are not acknowledging that their perpetrators themselves had yet begun to embrace Islam's teachings in full -via the Qu'ran or similar. Perpetrators individually or group-wise. The last line is a fully charged statement, I know. I can engage that subject in another venue. What remains an anecdote to these liberal thinkers' grandstandings is to raise public figures who will remind them that individual isms do not preceed teachings of the Qu'ran. No different from that "wonderful, well-mannered KKK gentleman who purchased a cheesesteak from my shop". That gentleman, proclaimed a devote Christian, suffers from negative isms. Ms Ali and Mr./Ms. Manji need remember, also, that many politicians of this here American liberty have touched young boys. Another charged statement. I know. Forgive me, please, for blunt ignorance. Does the Qu’ran express explicitly aversions to homosexuality, members of particular ethnic groups and/or non-Islamic belief practitioners?

If it does, then the issue is not globalization, false universal nor modernization. The issue, instead, would be indifference.

If it does not, the issue extends beyond globalization. It ventures transference neurosis. Incidentally the American liberties propaganda is the grand agitator. Thus this does not exclude hidden sexism, dormant will to ethnic cleansing, homophobia unawakened or other negative isms yet surfaced due to liberal thinking -liberal thinking as is in public talk. Mind you, I am appreciative fully of cultural traditions and cultural way of life that have substained a people and their history albeit whatever fine lines liberal thinkers would raise. This transference neurosis produces these isms, which lain quiescent among local and regional power brokers, thus flowed decades. These victims of the isms, now liberal thinkers with bullhorns, are not acknowledging that their perpetrators themselves had yet begun to embrace Islam’s teachings in full -via the Qu’ran or similar. Perpetrators individually or group-wise.

The last line is a fully charged statement, I know. I can engage that subject in another venue. What remains an anecdote to these liberal thinkers’ grandstandings is to raise public figures who will remind them that individual isms do not preceed teachings of the Qu’ran. No different from that “wonderful, well-mannered KKK gentleman who purchased a cheesesteak from my shop”. That gentleman, proclaimed a devote Christian, suffers from negative isms. Ms Ali and Mr./Ms. Manji need remember, also, that many politicians of this here American liberty have touched young boys.

Another charged statement. I know.

]]> By: Islam: Just another foreign thing? « Tariq Nelson http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-88816 Islam: Just another foreign thing? « Tariq Nelson Sat, 04 Aug 2007 11:56:21 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-88816 [...] Marc put it this way: If Islam is to become something other than a foreign culture activity, something to give Blackamericans identity and [false] esteem, then Islam will have to be appropriated and steered both towards our history, addressing our present, so that a trajectory for the future may be charted. A triage will have to be performed on the body of Blackamerican Islam, assessing its health, wealth, and faculty for moving forward. What parts can be kept, what parts can be modified and what parts need be amputated, these are the questions for the surgeons of the future of Blackamerican Islam. And while I have chosen to emphasis Blackamerican Muslims for this example, I believe this is the process that needs to be done by any and all Muslims, both those abroad but most immediately those here in America [black, white or otherwise]. Community independence will need to be established, lead by an energetic youthfulness, tempered by the wisdom of its elders [...] [...] Marc put it this way: If Islam is to become something other than a foreign culture activity, something to give Blackamericans identity and [false] esteem, then Islam will have to be appropriated and steered both towards our history, addressing our present, so that a trajectory for the future may be charted. A triage will have to be performed on the body of Blackamerican Islam, assessing its health, wealth, and faculty for moving forward. What parts can be kept, what parts can be modified and what parts need be amputated, these are the questions for the surgeons of the future of Blackamerican Islam. And while I have chosen to emphasis Blackamerican Muslims for this example, I believe this is the process that needs to be done by any and all Muslims, both those abroad but most immediately those here in America [black, white or otherwise]. Community independence will need to be established, lead by an energetic youthfulness, tempered by the wisdom of its elders [...]

]]> By: UmmZaid http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-88761 UmmZaid Sat, 04 Aug 2007 05:08:03 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-88761 Salaam 'Alaikum I think my perspective would be more along the lines that the Sunnah is guidance on navigating culture, not a substitute for it. How boring it would be if we all had the same culture, at the same food, wore the same style of clothing, and so on. Created in diversity so that we might know one another. I like that. Salaam ‘Alaikum

I think my perspective would be more along the lines that the Sunnah is guidance on navigating culture, not a substitute for it.

How boring it would be if we all had the same culture, at the same food, wore the same style of clothing, and so on. Created in diversity so that we might know one another. I like that.

]]> By: Dynamite Soul http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-88732 Dynamite Soul Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:24:29 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-88732 As salaamu alaikum bro, This was a great read, masha Allah As salaamu alaikum bro,

This was a great read, masha Allah

]]> By: Musa Maguire http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/comment-page-1/#comment-88721 Musa Maguire Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:50:02 +0000 http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2007/08/03/clash-of-globalizations-western-and-islamic-utopianists/#comment-88721 We're often taught that "sunnah" is a substitute for culture, that the prior must obliterate the latter. It's obviously a more delicate balance, but where to draw the line? Should I feel guilty for taking my sons to a baseball game? Or for giving away my highwaters? and then the pop culture, which is my culture, what do I preserve, what do I shun? Any thoughts? We’re often taught that “sunnah” is a substitute for culture, that the prior must obliterate the latter. It’s obviously a more delicate balance, but where to draw the line? Should I feel guilty for taking my sons to a baseball game? Or for giving away my highwaters? and then the pop culture, which is my culture, what do I preserve, what do I shun?

Any thoughts?

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