Salafiyyah - The Conversation Really Continues
April 11, 2006 | 13 Rabbi al-Awwal 1427
I’m gonna post my comments from this conversation below to push it to the fore front of the blog a little. Please read the 2nd post and the original one as well. And of course, we’d love to hear your take on it.
I’ve had really good responses and I thank all of you. My
purpose for this is precisely that - a dialog. So I hope to hear from
more of you.I will try to address a few points here:
The brother said, “I tend to agree with Qardawi in that there needs to be a way of addressing a number of current issue, while staying inside of the fold
of Islaam (I won’t say there is a need of a new Fiqh because that
usually draws ire from a number of circles)”Why not a new fiqh? What would constitute a new fiqh? What does fiqh
even mean? We may have the dictionary definition as jurisprudence (the
theory and/or philosophy of law), but what does it really mean for us
in its application? This is why we had the formation of a fiqh council, although some of its founding members have left due to various reasons.The Salafis as a group do not address (and I believe it was never their intention
to address) the needs and situations of Western Muslims. It is shocking
and appalling to see East Coast Salafi ranks swelled by Blackamerican
Muslims, whom for many, live in poverty, drug and gang-ridden
neighborhoods. Their populations have little to no access to health
care, educational or economic opportunities. They are often taught an
anti-Jewish, anti-Western rhetoric (which for the vast majority of
which never had bad relations with Jews and on the reverse, many had a
legitimate gripe with the established white authority). Combating white
supremacy or institutionalized racism has taken a back seat to the
Palestinian/Israeli conflict (which is made out to be the 6th Pillar of
Islam). Having been convinced that everything about their Western
heritage is haram and corrupt, many of these Muslims focus on
“learning the Deen” or “going overseas” to learn Arabic when most have
a less than a 3rd or 4th-grade grammatical education (I can say this
from experience - I’ve tried teaching Arabic courses in places like
these and most people lack rudimentary grammar skills). The men spend
all day in the mosques soaking up this “knowledge” instead of getting
an education and or a job so they can take care of themselves, their
families and contribute something to this society instead of just
bitching about it.P.S. - What ever happened to just soaking up the ethical message of Islam and incorporating that into the daily life? Nah…
It also begs the question: Did these brothers and sisters think by
becoming Muslims that they could just leave their demographics? AIDS
plagues our inner city black communities, Muslim or non-Muslim.If I can also address ‘Umar’s comments. He said, “define
Islamic Pluralsim as it means to you? are there any limitations to
this? Or do we have to sit back and wait for lesbian imams?”I think I made myself fairly clear by what I mean by Pluralism but I’ll
say it again: There is more than one way of being Muslim. There is more
than one way of practicing Islam. Not all Muslims agree on all matters.
And in the absence of Unanimous Consensus (ijma’), we must
agree to disagree. In other words, in the absence of Unanimous
Consensus or the Prophet (peace and blessings upon him) coming back and
saying Bob is right and Marqas is wrong (why am I always wrong??), then we must simply agree to disagree. I must tolerate your practice and you must tolerate mine. Does this mean we’ll have lesbian imams? I dunno. I doubt it. Define lesbian imam? Someone who is a lesbian and calls themselves an imam? They could do so but would they be accepted by the greater community? And in all honesty, don’t we have bigger issues to deal with than a thousand “what
if’s?” Poverty is a real issue. Health care is a real issue. Economic
disparity is a real issue. Being misunderstood, marginalized and
disenfranchised are real issues of the day we ought to be dealing with. Just my two cents. Thanks for the thoughts.
April 12th, 2006 at 9:31 am
As you can see, this conversation is hot because of the damage that has been done. Br. Marqas you hit on some points that are taboo to talk about in most of their circles.
Like you, I don’t want to bash for its sake and all that I say is out of concern.
April 12th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
Did you know that the Gulf Cooperation Council of Nations Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates employee nearly 10 million migrant workers mostly for southeast Asia. Did you also know that the countries in the Gulf Cooperation Council have an economy growing at a rate greater that 6%? Did you know that the Palestinians have a workforce of 800,000 people? The Palestinians also have an unemployment rate of 67%. This mean that about 270,000 Palestinians are without work. But the Arabic Nations in the Gulf Cooperation Council employ 10,000,000 migrant workers. Why do the unemployed Palestinians stay living in a battle zone? Did you know that a trip from the Gaza Strip to Dubai is 2149 km or 1335 miles? The UAE has about 2,000,000 migrant workers. They also have a booming economy.
April 13th, 2006 at 9:06 pm
The biggest problem is with those that use the label Salafi to justify there clichish gangland attitude, in the same way some use Sufi to justify thier superficial kissup character.
We live in a time when the easiest thing to do is label (yourself or others) in order to ostracize yourslef from the community and shirk your legitimate islamic duties.
Marqas, I appreciate your comments on the educational level of many that claim certain callings. It is said to see so many children trapped in families that will not provide them a proper education, simply because they cant themselves, or because they are afraid of “teaching the kids Kuffar stuff”
As if math and science were part and parcel of kufr.
As for the discussion, then everyone (Salafi or non) should remember the statement of one of the Salaf, AbulRahman ibn Yahya, when he said “the people of Ahlu-sunnah mention about themselves that which is for them and that which is against them. The people of innovation only mention that which is in thier favor.”
April 16th, 2006 at 8:07 am
Salaams to all,
I’m new and I just want to say that Marqas and the rest of the commentors have done a good job of articulating what I think is potentially one of the worst problems American Muslims, espicially indigenous American Muslims face. If the hard-core Saudi trained salafists (who are now ashamed of the word Salafi btw) would pass through our nice little planet Earth every now and again, they would see that their ‘Da’wah’is causing extreme enmity for the religion of Islam - from both non-Muslims AND Muslims. Brothers and Sisters of the blog (lol) Muslims are on the verge of LEAVING Islam because the only Islam that they have been introduced to and nurtured via the INternet is ‘Saudi’ Islam. A way of life that is so extreme to American Muslims that in my humble opinion it causes a form of Psychosis in our brothers and sisters when they try to adhere to such austere and lofty pretenses. ‘Burnout’ indeed brutha! I’ve been a Muslim for almost thirty years in this country. My father excepted Islam early in my life. I’ve seen trends come and go. In the past, if you kept ‘Laa ilaaha illallah/Muhammadan Rasulullah’ and didnt eat pork you were doing pretty darn good. Now with the ’saudi’ standard of ‘haraam, haraam, haraam, bid’ah, bid’ah, bid’ah - Islam becomes something less natural and organic but something cold and mechanical. And why are saudi taught ‘du’aat’ so obsessed with rulings??? The rulings of this and the rulings of that??? How is this ‘everything is codified and has a ruling’ version of Islam attractive to our non-Muslim relatives, friends, co-workers, etc? How is the average regular Joe Jamal going to sustain this over his entire life? Burnout Indeed.
Hey Marqas, I like Jazz too - inspite of the Saudis haha. Peace.
June 1st, 2007 at 6:08 pm
[…] Here’s the chain as it went: The Salafi Problem, The Salafi Problem: Part II, Salafiyyah - The Conversation Continues, and Salafiyyah - The Conversation Really Continues. […]